Down the rabbit hole: An interview with Rich Germeau, part 2


How weird is Bigfoot really? Here’s the second part of my interview with Rich Germeau who collected a big portion of the purported Bigfoot DNA samples for the controversial Ketchum study. The forty-year-old does not support the hypothesis that Bigfoot is an ape. He prefers different explanations. In this second part he talks about infrasound, the Bryan Sykes study, Native American traditions and conspiracy theories concerning Bigfoot, and the possible nature of the creature.

This interview was conducted in 2015 via Skype.
Part 1

I can kinda see why people are criticizing Melba Ketchum.

She’s not the best advocate for herself anyway, she is open-minded to the paranormal a little bit, but she is a scientist. But I think the fact that what she’s seen in the DNA and her own experiences that she’s had basically had made her not want to hold back. Regardless of how people feel about her or ridicule her or think she is not credible. She is credible, but I think she’s just one of those people who don’t really care what everyone thinks. She’s done everything she can. I believe in her studies.

I can’t say if the things she says she’s experienced are true because I wasn’t there. All I can attest to is that something I experienced personally.

The feeling that I expressed I was having, being overwhelmed and feeling sick, with a heartbeat like that and not feeling good and just hyperventilating. Many people have described that similar, some people got to the point where they threw up or kept getting imbalanced or even passed out. It’s because it is an environmental factor they can’t see. Something is going on around them that they can’t see. They can feel it, but they can’t see it. And those same people would discount that stuff and not consider it.

In fact, what they tend to say is, and they may be right, is that it is infrasound. A lot of people tell you that there is a low-frequency vibration that makes you ill, to make these cameras not work, to make electronics die. And that might very well be the case. But they are able to control the infrasound, they can give the desired effects that they want, be it to disarm a camera, be it to make a researcher sick, be it to scare someone out of an area. They can specifically use it how they want it.

I don’t know how you can use a low-frequency vibrations so specifically for certain things and have it affect somebody in one way at one time, but not have it affect somebody else in another way.

Infrasound seems to be a reasonable explanation to me.

Is it as simple as infrasound? I don’t know. But what I can tell you is what these things are, based on experiences, what the DNA says and what my beliefs are and my faith and whatnot. I think there is a lot of weird stuff to these things. I think they are probably interdimensional, I think they’re either part angel or part alien and they can utilize more than one dimension probably. That’s why people can follow a track line that disappears in the snow out of nowhere. They just flat out disappear like this thing walks into another dimension.

I mean it’s that strange. I don’t know how many researchers I’ve been talking to found that same scenario. They’re following the tracks and all of a sudden they’re just gone. But with no environmental factor that made them go away. The substrate in the ground is still the same, the snow is still the same, but the tracks are gone. Either that Bigfoot disappeared or walked backwards on its own footsteps, perfectly, for three or four or five miles. I’m just saying, be open-minded to it.


And I can tell you why it’s being pushed down so far. Because you got the main people that are in there, and I like Jeff Meldrum and John Bindernagel and all these people, don’t get me wrong. I have no problem with them, I enjoy talking to them. They’re a valuable asset to the field and everything, but I think their science is only gonna take them so far. I think ultimately, it’s going into the other direction.

These other people who have other views, even like Melba Ketchum makes them really uncomfortable. Not so much Bindernagel, but Meldrum, yes. He’s the leading guy and everybody respects him, I respect him, but he’s not open-minded to anything strange regarding the topic. He just discounts it completely. Won´t even accept it. The simplest explanation to him is the most logical and probable and anything that doesn’t fit in that box, he doesn´t pay attention to, right?

Yeah, well…

But I think as time goes on, as these people go away and more people come forward, I think it´s going to transition to this other outlook, to the paranormal side. And I think the future of this, the key to the whole thing might be, you know, people who claim to be able to talk to these things, through telepathy or mind-speak and, you know, and ah, they do, and I´ll tell you, they all ask them, where are they from and what are they and I´ll tell you the answer is always the same.

These things don´t want to tell you what they are, they don’t want to tell you where they´re from. The closest that they´ve gotten is they´ll tell you they´re from the stars, but, generally speaking they don´t want to say.


I´m just telling you what I´ve heard. I am open-minded to any possibility! But you have to really consider all these other factors and all this other evidence to try to make a picture that´s more realistic based on that information.

Just because that the rabbit hole you can go down leads you to a place that makes you a little uncomfortable, may not fit in with your belief system, doesn´t mean that you need to discount it and just ignore it, because, you can´t – I don´t see how people can stay in the topic and be researching the topic and ignore all these other factors and evidence that goes along with it.

And all you have to do is go back to the Native Americans because they´ll tell you all this stuff that we discount today and they´ll tell you, for a thousand years, over and over again, and every tribe tells you the same thing about the paranormal and the interdimensional.

And you can find records from Indian tribes that were before White contact and they had the same stories then as they have now about them being able to screw with your mind, mimicry, ah, use of telepathy, being able to use interdimensional gateways, disappear, make you sick. So how come if the Indians had these experiences they couldn´t explain a hundred to a thousand years ago and science still can´t explain the same experiences White people and Indians have today?

Well, things are happening to people that are researching today that they can´t understand and they can´t explain. And it´s the same stuff the Indians were talking about then, right, and for some reason, the game cameras don´t work, and all this other stuff doesn´t work and when you do DNA and you get the results people don´t like, they say; well we don´t like these results so we´re going to discredit this person. That´s what happens. That´s what happened with Melba Ketchum and she told the truth, you know, they don´t like the answers. And everybody that tests the DNA is going to get the same results that she got. If they test the nuclear DNA they´re going to get the same results.

Okay. But what’s your opinion on Bryan Sykes who also analyzed some of the samples that were used in the Ketchum study? He came up with different results.

Sykes tested some of the same samples that we tested in the Ketchum study and he said that they were bovine, they weren´t even Bigfoot, and he had US official Wildlife screen his samples for him before he tested them. This means the United States government had the first opportunity to throw something out or send it through. They screened all his samples for him. So if the United States government or any government for that matter has any agenda to not have this thing come out or anything like that, don´t you think that they would do their best to make sure that he didn’t get any viable samples?

Sounds like a conspiracy theory. Why did US officials even screen those samples?

Maybe he didn´t have a choice, maybe that was part of the deal.

Okay. But he–

I don´t know. Like, everyone knows about these things. I mean I´ve talked to biologists and scientists that have worked for the National Park Service and stuff that have claimed to have had sightings and interactions. Jeff Meldrum will tell you that he knows somebody that was a lead guy for the Olympic National Park science district and, ah, he had had a sighting himself in the Olympics, but, officially he´d tell you they don´t exist, but he saw one.


And he said that about four of his employees had seen them up there too, they were all scientifically trained, college-educated biologists. They had seen these things physically, they worked for the government, yet they don´t exist officially. Right?

I find your views and stories very interesting, you know; what you´re saying and that kind of supports stories from other people like David Donlon. Do you know him?

No, I don´t know him.

He had a blog about Bigfoot research, and he has experienced similar stuff.

Well, somebody else´s picture that has had the same experience as me may be slightly different from mine, but they´re probably going to be along the same lines. You may also talk to Matthew Johnson, or Randy Brisson who´s a Native American guy and they may look at this all a little bit differently, but the core of it is going to be the same.

You have no choice. Because if you don´t it´ll drive you crazy.

So is it like the more you have experiences with Bigfoot, the more you get this weird stuff?

No, not everybody.

There are a lot of Bigfoot researchers that never had any strange or paranormal experiences, like the guys from the Erickson Project or the North American Wood Ape Conservancy. So what’s your opinion on that?

Well, yeah, the guys with the Erickson Project in Kentucky never had any of those experiences. The Bigfoots, they still had the uncanny ability to avoid the cameras and stuff like that. They would sneak up on them silently and stuff of that nature, but they never had any of the, ah, at least they never said anything about the zapping or any of that.

I don´t know the answer to that, I don´t know why that that is, I can tell you that I´ve had these experiences, I´ve talked to plenty of people that have.


I think it depends on how open-minded you are and it has to do with you as an individual and the energy you have and everything that has to go with it. And I think that – I think everybody has a little bit, umm, emits extrasensory type as – not powers I´ll say, but skills or whatever it is. If you are in touch with those, you´re gonna to be able to get a lot of comfort in this topic a lot faster. Because it´ll give you the ability to rationalize it and accept it a little bit easier. ´Cause I´ll tell you, some of this stuff regarding this you have to just accept based on faith, it´s not something you´re going to see. You may have a little sense, we may feel it a little bit, but, you´re not going to see it, you´re not going to have any direct evidence of it.

This sounds quite esoteric. It’s not a scientific approach, right? And probably not the approach that the other Olympic project guys do endorse.

I like those guys, but they´d just like to ignore all the other stuff because it makes them uncomfortable.

They utilize the Bigfoot phenomenon as a way that they can go out and interact with other people and have a good time, it´s a social group for them; they go camping, they knock on trees, they howl in the woods, they got their fancy electronics. But nobody on these expeditions is discovering Bigfoot.

I mean, they don´t want to know the truth in a lot of ways. Because I think it would make them feel vulnerable.

So what does, uh, Derek Randles say for example if you tell him about your views on this?

He wouldn´t agree with me. He wouldn’t have any way to discount what I´m saying or to talk against it, but he wouldn’t agree with me.

Okay. So how do you look at your experiences in retrospect?

It opened up the scar inside of me, it´s something never healed.

It´s like a, umm, you know. And I´ll tell you, cause I don´t really give a shit, it basically, ah, created an opening between my conscious and subconscious and I don´t know to really explain that, but I just sense things a lot more than I used to ever since that happened to me and I had that encounter.

And, umm, I´m more emotional, every aspect of my, of me is different as far as – I mean, I´m still the same person, but I have been opened way of up as far as my sensory goes. I can´t explain it, but I´ll tell you that they did it, however they did it, umm, it wasn´t their intention, I don´t know if it was or not, but, I have certainly become a lot more spiritual person too, my faith has gotten stronger since then. It was like an awakening to some degree or another. It wasn´t like it was a positive thing, I think positive stuff came out of it.

Did you ever go back to the sighting location?

I kept going back there after that, trying to make contact with them, but they didn´t want nothing to do with me. I mean I heard them out there, but I never saw them. I tried to leave bait out there, I did all kinds of different stuff, just try to, “Okay, I´ve seen you now, you touched me in some way, emotionally, whatever it was, you were zapping me or however.” I tried to establish the bait site, tried to establish contact and communication somewhere or another. I kept going back for a few months and then l lost my gumption and nothing happened, they obviously didn´t want nothing to do with me, they just wanted me to quit bugging them.

So do you even care now? I mean, do you care if they are, you know, discovered?

Oh, I mean, the honest truth is that it´s not going to happen, because humanity´s not ready to accept the truth about these things, they´re not ready to wrap their mind around it or really identify what it is. Because I´ll tell you what Bigfoot probably is.

It is the gateway into the true past of human origination and history. I´m sure if you´re interested in Bigfoot, you´re looking at other stuff, like the pyramids they found in Bosnia and the, you know, the ones they found in Crimea, just before the Russians invaded there, all this stuff, you know; how this things are way older than the Egyptian pyramids and bigger and how they seem to be giant power plants. This technology, where did it come from? I´m saying Bigfoot is part of this old world that we had here, that we don´t know about, but it´s a remnant of that and it´s still here now.


And I think the truth about Bigfoot is the reason why the government doesn´t disclose it, because it challenges a lot of things in science and how we´ve basically built this belief system that we have that´s been passed on generations, how we believe things, how we believe we came to be, how we believe the history of America, history of the world, everything.

It´s not right, I think Bigfoot´s part of that, it doesn´t fit in with that, but it fits in with what was before. And when we find out about Bigfoot we´re going to find out about everything else too. But it´s not time yet. And science doesn´t support Bigfoot in its true existence in the way that it is. Science has to reform a little bit before this can be really accepted, the reality of it, what it is, because it has to do with other dimensions, it has to do with a lot of weird shit that we don´t really accept at face value.

There´s another dimension right here. And this Bigfoot thing can access it because it´s a little different genetically than you, it can walk from this one into this one – and then back and forth, but we can´t. We don´t even know this one exists. But it´s right here, it exists parallel to us all the time, this thing can go back and forth between the two. But we can´t, we´re stuck in this one, you know, maybe our subconscious, maybe our soul has the ability to move between the two, but not physically, but they can.

I´m telling you, that´s how weird this is. It may not be exactly like that, but it´s going to be something like that as far as the reality of the existence of this thing.

And the other thing is that Bigfoot is not the only one, there´s a wide range of different stuff out there like it. That probably is the same as it, interdimensionally, that goes back and forth. In the Ketchum study we had proof of dogmen, werewolves, we had DNA from three different individuals from Tennessee. It´s a canine-human cross.


We didn´t tell nobody about that.

She does talk about it a little bit now. You can find some stuff on Facebook and the internet where she´s talked about it a little. Scott Carpenter has information on it, because he´s the one that collected the evidence, he´s found tracks and everything.

And when these things come into earth, the Bigfoots get out. Because the Bigfoots don´t even like these things, they´re scared of them too. And they´re evil. They´re not good. I mean, they carry bad energies,

I´m just saying that most of the mainstream Bigfoot people don´t even know about this other stuff. They don´t even want to think about it. People, they hear about it, in their research, but they just ignore it because it´s uncomfortable for them. It´s outside their belief system, outside their comfort zone, they want to believe Bigfoot is a flesh-and-blood thing, that there´s a scientific explanation for its existence, that we can trace through a family tree or a DNA chain or a evolution or something like that. That´s what they´re comfortable with, they are not comfortable with anything else.

So do you think that there will ever be a dead Bigfoot?

I think there already has been bodies. The government´s got them, they´ve taken them. People have killed them. I mean if we can collect blood and hair and footprints, we surely can collect a body too. But I think that, if you kill one and you leave it where it´s at, it ain´t going to be there when you come back.


They´re never alone. There´s always more than one, you know, and I´m sure the government´s taken bodies, or I’ve heard a lot of stories of it.

I mean you look back at the Columbus Day storm in 1962 and there was a body in Oregon. And there was a bunch of witnesses and people took pictures and the government came in and took it and told everybody “if you say anything, you´re going to jail”. And up until the eighties or nineties there was actually some picture that escaped that was on display in some restaurant in Oregon somewhere. You can find it. Look up the Columbus Day storm Bigfoot.

And you´ll find evidence of them, but they disappeared. Look at the one from 1993, in New Mexico, the New Mexico fire, forest fire, where there were a lot of witnesses who´ve said they helped this Bigfoot who came running out of the woods on fire, government scooped it up, took it to China Lake Air Force base, told everybody you better keep your mouth shut or you´ll going to jail. A bunch of people came forward anonymously, but you know there was some investigation done into the fire station and found that all the records for that time were destroyed – or gone. I mean, there´s a lot of reasons to believe that that incident really happened and the government took the body and the thing disappeared.

I mean, I´m saying, like, for you, this is just a piece of your puzzle, I´m saying this is a different point of view from the other people you´ve talked to and I´ll tell you with confidence that I think that, what I´m looking at, the people that are like-minded as me; we are on the right track and these other people are not.

You are not an active Bigfoot researcher anymore, right?

I´m still interested in it and stuff and I´m, I guess I´m active in a different way. I´m active in my own mind, you know, just trying to make pieces out of it and I don´t know, I don´t feel the need to go out looking anymore. I already know enough, I guess, I´m comfortable with the whole thing, you know.

And these things don´t want to be my friends and they don´t want to interact with me. I know that they´re out there, I know where to find them and how to find them and I know that, they don´t want to be friends with me, so why should I keep trying to, umm, go out there and look for something that wants to avoid me? Cause the only time that they´re going to, is when they let you. These things are, I mean, they do make mistakes occasionally, obviously, but most times you see them, it´s because they want you to see them.

So what do you do with all that, ah, free-time that you have now?

Oh, I spend more time with my family now. I mean, I´m home more, umm, I do gardening and I work, I work all the time. I kind of do, I´m not a cop anymore, but I do physical work, like building things or cutting trees or firewood or whatever.

You don’t work as a cop anymore. Does the reason have to do with Bigfoot?

Yeah, I guess it is partially because of Sasquatch, I mean, it´s just a sense of, ah, I got tired of it and, umm, I wanted to live my life the way I wanted to live it – I guess, you can put it that way.


You know? And, ah, I just live my life differently than I used to now. I don´t have credit cards, I don´t have a cell phone, umm, I don´t buy a bunch of crap I don´t need. I drive older cars that I own and I don´t care what anybody thinks about what I look like or dress like or – it doesn´t make any difference to me.

As long as I have good food to eat and I got a warm house to be in and, you know, I´m around people that I care about, nothing else really matters that much.

It used to be different! But I think this has kind of, changed me a little bit that way, I´m more simple.


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Chris Kummer is a journalist and historian based in Switzerland. He focuses mainly on scientific controversies and inquiries into so-called paranormal phenomena.

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